I haven't been to downtown Huntington for a few months and I was just curious how it looked. Has it brought many people back to town for shopping & eating?
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 W0LFMAN
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I heard the Super Block is open in Huntington.... |
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Posts: 7209 12/16/04 07:47:00 Administrator |
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muBlade |
Re: gaming | #41 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 16:33:28 |
Quote: I need some proof. Show me where gaming didn't revive Atlantic City. I googled and got several articles where it states that it saved the city. Show me where Tunica, Mississippi, a virtual ghost town and run down cotton fields failed. They now have over 50,000 people and their average wage has more that doubled. Same goes for Biloxi, Johnsonville and several midwestern towns along the Mississippi. I calling you on your statement. Show me where only Reno has prospered.  |
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sturt |
Blade> I'll get back to you | #42 | ||
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Posts: 482 12/17/04 16:44:37 |
I remember seeing a report about Atlantic City on 60 Minutes years ago... and I mean many years ago... which supported the gist of my contention.
Something more recent? I'll have to look into it... shouldn't be that difficult to document. |
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muBlade |
Atlantic City | #43 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 16:46:17 |
Quote: It Helped Atlantic City |
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muBlade |
Tunica, Mississippi | #44 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 16:52:47 |
Quote: It Helped Tunica |
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sturt |
Welfare recipients in NJ or NV... | #45 | ||
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Posts: 482 12/17/04 16:54:45 |
...may be a little scarce to begin with... perhaps there are industries within the vicinity that allow the gaming industry to complement what's going on there.
WV, by everyone's admission here, would be looking to this to be a primary industry, not just a complementary one to the many already in existence. More comparable to a WV scenario, otoh, are the Indian reservations where it's been used to try to drive those local economies... and wow, hasn't that made all the difference for our native American friends... (*smirk*) Finally, yes, I was actually in Reno for several days a summer ago for a conference at casino hotel... so let's dispense with the "pious" label intended to demonize people you don't agree with, and just deal with the issue itself on its face, ok? |
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muBlade |
Detroit, Michigan | #46 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 16:59:31 |
Quote: It helped Detroit |
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muBlade |
Look at my responses to BoBoThunder. | #47 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 17:02:31 |
You'll find that you are grossly misinformed.
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muBlade |
St Louis, MO | #48 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 17:13:40 |
Quote: Saint Louis understands the impact. |
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muBlade |
Re: Welfare recipients in NJ or NV... | #49 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 17:24:18 |
Quote: As did Reno, Vegas and all the others. Incredibly, gaming led to other industries setting up shop. The city and the state can afford to ecomonically attract other businesses when the tax base is more than complemented by gaming. Quote: Quote: The city has the luxury to attract other businesses with lower taxation, thus making the economy strong and healthy. |
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lovedaherd2 |
Aurora, Ind, and two other river cities in Indiana are +++ | #50 | ||
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Posts: 10 12/17/04 17:37:06 |
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sturt |
What's this? | #51 | ||
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Posts: 482 12/17/04 20:02:47 |
Blade, who are you citing and why should their evaluations be taken as reliable and valid?
I'll be looking for sources w/o a dog in the fight, preferably scholarly work. I encourage you to do the same. And btw, you're welcome to compare a casino based in Huntington to one based in Reno, as long as I'm welcome to compare a casino based in Huntington to one based on any given Indian reservation... I think the general population can figure out which one is going to be closer to reality. My last notes on this for the night... Gaming is what your town does when it's lost all hope and senses that it can't do anything else... it's giving up... it's saying that no matter what the price to the rest of our quality of life in the community, we care more about money... it's a question of dignity... if we can't earn cash flow into the community through the work of our hands and minds, then let's simply resort to luring people into town in a legal, conventionally-accepted get-rich-quick scheme that ultimately makes money for us and the gaming company collaborating in that scheme. It's desperate. And in a region weighted toward people with less, it's irresponsible. Huntington and its citizenry aren't that. Huntington has dignity. Even in it's losses through the years, it remains a town with character. I rue the day that a few "visionaries" re-create it into something very different. Thank God some have sought investment into legitimate ventures like launching Marshall to a more national stage and greater prominence, and then there's the whole biotech development thing... The cycle will come Huntington's way again, and especially if the city resists the urge to gain the economic equivalent of breast implants ( -- looks good from the outside and at first, but sooner or later the truth of what's underneath becomes apparent... flawed, sagging, and ugly). |
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Marco00 |
i've got this one as a TKO for Blade | #52 | ||
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Posts: 2039 12/17/04 20:08:58 |
it's over.
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sturt |
Blade | #53 | ||
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Posts: 482 12/17/04 21:02:55 |
Quote: Just looking for some clarity... You're attempting to justify a casino on the basis that the state already allows other forms of gambling? "They're already doing this, so why not permit them to do that?" And are you also suggesting that even in having more lavish outlets for gambling, that people won't be any more inclined to spill their money then than they are now? And finally... your definition of "prove" is what?... just so you don't set the definition so high that it can't reasonably be approached let alone met... and to be fair, just make sure it's a level of "proof" that you yourself can meet, otherwise you're only issuing the hollow challenge in the best Scott Farcas tradition. Quote: Is that why almost all of the casinos you've been so eager to mention were located outside of an urban area, ie where there is a sizeable middle class and upper class to appeal to? What happens, Professor Blade, when a casino is located in an area where there is comparatively little middle and relatively no upper to appeal to? And if you get MJ here before you get WV welfare recipients, then my man, (with acknowledgement to the judgment of Marco00 and any of his French colleagues  ) you've not only TKO'd me, you've knocked me out of the universe... but at least give me some reason to understand why people like MJ would flock to WV when they can pick from all these other wonderful places you mention... what sets WV apart?(Putting it at The Greenbrier is one thing... putting it in Hgtn or Chas or the Weston State Hospital (cough-cough-gag-gag-bellylaughter)... any of those is quite another.) Quote: Indeed, tourism when you've got a unique ski slope, a particularly inviting beach, or a picturesque mountain range... those are far from artificial, and I would join you in calling that foolishness. One doesn't simply invent a reason for someone to go to one of those places... they are not synthetically appealing, they are naturally appealing. (Can we get back to the subject now?... as I remember, we were talking about opening another McDonalds in Huntington... er, no... another Planet Hollywood... strike that, they went out of business... no, another Hard Rock Cafe'... ahhh... no, I remember... another CASINO... another "UNIQUE" casino, unlike all the others... one that EVERYONE will want to fly to WV to come to...) Quote: So, the "real facts" are that I should gauge the future of e-commerce on your singular stock quote for Yahoo? Isn't that a little like going back 25 years ago and yucking up the potential of the fast-food industry based on the stock price of McDonald's back when? Thanks for setting me straight, Professor. Forgive me... I've got to go order some xmas presents from Amazon now... (you should try it sometime... it's really great for those of us who despise going to shop at "real properties" ) |
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sturt |
OHHHHH COMMMMME ONNNNN.... | #54 | ||
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Posts: 482 12/17/04 21:16:17 |
Quote: ...is this what you're reduced to doing to prop up this wobbly-kneed contention??? Well then... maybe I could counter with this... this sounds like a great city in which to live, doesn't it?... Quote: (LINK) (I mean, as long as we're not "considering the source", why not?) |
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BoBoThunder |
blade | #55 | ||
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Posts: 30 12/17/04 22:27:45 |
i'm not saying it wouldn't of worked... i'm just saying it's not likely... ever heard of John Warren Kindt or read the U.S. Congressional hearing "The Business-Economic Impacts of Licensed Casino Gambling: Short-Term Gain but Long Term Pain"? Did you know that Wisconsin loses 318 million to gambling... ever read about south Dakota and the "great benefits" they got from gaming? Florida did a statewide analysis on the effects of legalized gambling activities and they concurred with the congressional hearings conclusions. Get this... a pathological gambler has been calculated to cost society 13,200 to 52,000 a year... this is a condition people have and the number of people with this condition increases with the addition of legalized gambling... .77% (point-77%) (77 hundredths %) of Iowa was pathological gamblers before it was legal and in the six years after it was to 5.4% ... i mean there are places like reno and Atlantic city and you're right about those places... it did work for them and those are the ones you see on the travel channel and yeah they look good with their flashing lights and people in nice suits and all that jazz... but there are the wisconsins and the iowas and the south dakotas too... i mean it's not like gaming is the silver tape for economics... that's what im saying... it doesn't always work... in west virginia those who admit to having a gambling problem (according to the Gamblers Help Network of West Virginia) of those who admit the problem... 36% make less than $20,000 a year... the next 17% make between 20k and 30k a year... and only 10% make more than 40k a year... those are facts... im sitting hear reading the print out from the Gamblers network and the congressional hearing... now these are numbers from 2001... so maybe things have changed... but according to everything i read then... i figured that gambling was AT BEST of 50/50 shot at working... which also means it's a 50/50 shot at failing and now that i look back maybe 2:1 odds aren't too bad... but i didn't feel the need to even roll the dice on it back then. it just weren't solid enough for me... im not saying gambling sucks... im just saying... it's not the knight in shining armor that some think it might be... that's all im saying
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muBlade |
Re: Blade | #56 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 23:41:59 |
Quote: I don't have to justify anything. The state already allows the lottery and video machines. That is a fact. The only issue here is allowing table games. Huntington already has the other two. Quote: No. What I am saying is that table games are targeted at people with money, not welfare recipients or the poor. Quote: I think it's quite clear what proof is. I have posted several articles from cities and towns that have instituted gaming and all of them realized increased revenue, tax base and jobs. Sounds like you're crawlfishing. Quote: Not sure what you're saying here. Casinos are located in all tax bases, from Detroit and New Orleans to Fort Madison, Iowa, Natchez, Mississippi and Tunica (which I posted an article). Huntington's size falls somewhere in between. Quote: I was using a whale in the same context you were overplaying the poor. Casinos draw from quite a large area. I wouldn't be surprised to see people from seven or eight neighboring states frequent Huntington if it had a casino. It appears you don't understand. People come for the gaming. What they spend outside the casino is nothing but gravy. It is clear to me that you came into this argument half-cocked and felt comfortable spouting the same old tired line. I'm surprised you didn't include the "bad element" line as well. I would have loved to diprove that one. Calling me professor was apt, considering the extent you've been "schooled". |
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muBlade |
Re: blade | #57 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/17/04 23:53:16 |
Sorry, but it sounds like a lot of liberal poppycock to me.
A person with a gambling problem is an obsessive/compulsive. If they weren't overdoing it with gambling they'd mtl be drinking, doing drugs or some other vice. If you think the only time gambling has ever been a problem is when they legalized it, think again. Also, if it is such a burden and as obvious as you say, why does every state, including the ones you mentioned, have some form of legalized gambling? There are too many success stories out there for you to bring up "conceptual" losses. I could use the same logic to distort the cattle industry by quoting how much heart disease costs us each year.  |
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sturt |
I'll let others determine who's schooled whom | #58 | ||
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Posts: 482 12/18/04 00:10:38 |
...meanwhile, I'm content that I've laid out some solid points that you don't seem interested to acknowledge, let alone, engage.
Looks like bobo has uncovered some of the kind of information that is actually substantive, and though I'm committed to getting some sleep right now, when I do reply that's the kind of thing you'll see... not the city media's self-promotion or travel agency yada-yada-yada steeped in a profit motive. And finally, defensiveness doesn't become you: Quote: Ummmm... if you aren't attempting to "justify" a casino in Huntington, pray tell what are you doing and why are we even having this discussion??? And in answer to my two questions, it would have been simple enough to just say, "Yes, Huntinton already has the other two, so I'm just saying why not table games, too." No need to get snippy prematurely, my friend. G'nite. |
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muBlade |
My retort? | #59 | ||
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Posts: 940 12/18/04 00:10:43 |
blah, blah, blah... blah, blah....blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...
Save the "win one for the gipper" speach for someone else. Huntington hasn't made civic decisions based on anything as noble as dignity and character. It has floundered with weak leadership, poor business decisions, wrong turns, and a stubborn voting block. Huntington emulates the state and is reflective of 70 years of Democratic rule. Tax businesses until you suffocate them, then tax them some more. Run them out of town and the state and then have Byrd flip some federal funds our way so we can all work for the government. Damn the torpedos! Full steam ahead (to the welfare lines). Huntington and Charleston both now have refurbished their downtown areas and probably with the same result: People still won't go. After the novelty wears off, it will be as desolate as ever. Why? THERE HASN'T BEEN A NEW IDEA COME OUT OF EITHER CITY SINCE THEY WERE INCORPORATED. |
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pokeymu |
Re: teletrack | #60 | ||
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Posts: 60 12/18/04 04:37:48 |
all they need is an old navy, abercrombie & fitch, banana republic for the younger people..........some nice stores for the old fogies and the current mix of eateries........you know ...a lil' something for everyone.....what a novel idea!
Pullman is a smaller model of Easton mall in Columbus (if you go there, check it out....its great). The same developers developed Pullman too. Im sure that they had the same ideas that they had, but the tax code on business in the city of Huntington is out of whack, and the leaders need to realize that.........NOBODY wants to do business in Huntington, when they can do the same business in Barboursville and save big tax dollars......Just look at Stone and Thomas (used to be downtown, moved to the mall before bought out)....Walmart getting away from city zoning......and the list goes on and on and on..........I don't know why this is so hard to figure out, and readjust the way the city does business with businesses. |
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